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	<title>Comments on: Stepping Through the Looking Glass: Test-Driven Game Development (Part 3)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3</link>
	<description>Indie iPhone game development</description>
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		<title>By: Astronerd</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Astronerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2005 22:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-159</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Avoiding File I/O In Unit Tests&lt;/strong&gt;







Noel wrote a series of articles about TDD in game development here Games from Within: Stepping Through the Looking Glass: Test-Driven Game Development (Part 3).He mentions that the tests should run fast and that means no file I/O. However, sometimes...</description>
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<p><strong>Avoiding File I/O In Unit Tests</strong></p>
<p>Noel wrote a series of articles about TDD in game development here Games from Within: Stepping Through the Looking Glass: Test-Driven Game Development (Part 3).He mentions that the tests should run fast and that means no file I/O. However, sometimes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Austin</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-158</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Test Driven Development: First Impressions&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="">
<p><strong>Test Driven Development: First Impressions</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Robert 'Groby' Blum</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert 'Groby' Blum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2005 15:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Benoit:



Can&#039;t speak for Noel here, obviously - but in my experience, 3D code is tested after the fact. It&#039;s hard math, and that can&#039;t easily be *driven* by tests. I&#039;m not certain it&#039;s entirely true, but I&#039;ve got the feeling that the softer the rules, the easier it is to drive your development by tests.



That doesn&#039;t mean you *don&#039;t* test it - it&#039;s just that you write the code, manually verify correctness, and then fix the unit test. Still gives you coverage - it just doesn&#039;t help you as much in the design department.



I&#039;ve done it for a cross-platform particle engine, and it was *immensely* useful. No, it&#039;s not a full 3D engine - but the same ideas would apply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benoit:</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t speak for Noel here, obviously &#8211; but in my experience, 3D code is tested after the fact. It&#8217;s hard math, and that can&#8217;t easily be *driven* by tests. I&#8217;m not certain it&#8217;s entirely true, but I&#8217;ve got the feeling that the softer the rules, the easier it is to drive your development by tests.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean you *don&#8217;t* test it &#8211; it&#8217;s just that you write the code, manually verify correctness, and then fix the unit test. Still gives you coverage &#8211; it just doesn&#8217;t help you as much in the design department.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done it for a cross-platform particle engine, and it was *immensely* useful. No, it&#8217;s not a full 3D engine &#8211; but the same ideas would apply.</p>
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		<title>By: Benoit Miller</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Benoit Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2005 13:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-156</guid>
		<description>Very interesting series of articles, congrats!



&quot;But if you want to insert a mock object there (which you probably will, to avoid using a real renderer in your tests) [...]&quot;



...but what if the code being tested *is* the renderer?



I&#039;ve been thinking about TDD for a while but it&#039;s *hard* to apply this to 3D graphics. Tests will be long and complicated, and there is no clear way to validate the results (comparing images doesn&#039;t always work, for a variety of reasons).



How are you dealing with this? Are the 3D guys skipping the TDD? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting series of articles, congrats!</p>
<p>&#8220;But if you want to insert a mock object there (which you probably will, to avoid using a real renderer in your tests) [...]&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;but what if the code being tested *is* the renderer?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about TDD for a while but it&#8217;s *hard* to apply this to 3D graphics. Tests will be long and complicated, and there is no clear way to validate the results (comparing images doesn&#8217;t always work, for a variety of reasons).</p>
<p>How are you dealing with this? Are the 3D guys skipping the TDD? <img src='http://gamesfromwithin.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Benoit Miller</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Benoit Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2005 12:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-155</guid>
		<description>Very interesting series of articles, congrats!



&quot;But if you want to insert a mock object there (which you probably will, to avoid using a real renderer in your tests) [...]&quot;



...but what if the code being tested *is* the renderer?



I&#039;ve been thinking about TDD for a while but it&#039;s *hard* to apply this to 3D graphics. Tests will be long and complicated, and there is no clear way to validate the results (comparing images doesn&#039;t always work, for a variety of reasons).



How are you dealing with this? Are the 3D guys skipping the TDD? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting series of articles, congrats!</p>
<p>&#8220;But if you want to insert a mock object there (which you probably will, to avoid using a real renderer in your tests) [...]&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;but what if the code being tested *is* the renderer?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about TDD for a while but it&#8217;s *hard* to apply this to 3D graphics. Tests will be long and complicated, and there is no clear way to validate the results (comparing images doesn&#8217;t always work, for a variety of reasons).</p>
<p>How are you dealing with this? Are the 3D guys skipping the TDD? <img src='http://gamesfromwithin.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Fristrom</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Fristrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2005 04:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-154</guid>
		<description>So have you managed to spread TDD at the studio formerly known as Sammy?  Is *Darkwatch* a TDD project?



&quot;They should probably be relatively simple, so writing unit tests for them is not all that important.&quot;  Deep sigh...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So have you managed to spread TDD at the studio formerly known as Sammy?  Is *Darkwatch* a TDD project?</p>
<p>&#8220;They should probably be relatively simple, so writing unit tests for them is not all that important.&#8221;  Deep sigh&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Gräsman</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Gräsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-153</guid>
		<description>As for testing private methods -- I have this hunch that I haven&#039;t checked up what other people think about: If you find you want to test it, it probably shouldn&#039;t be private.



My thinking is that if a private method is so complex it needs testing, it&#039;s probably not primitive (in the Lakos sense), and should be extracted into a utility class, or similar.



Does that resonate with the feelings of anyone else?



- Kim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for testing private methods &#8212; I have this hunch that I haven&#8217;t checked up what other people think about: If you find you want to test it, it probably shouldn&#8217;t be private.</p>
<p>My thinking is that if a private method is so complex it needs testing, it&#8217;s probably not primitive (in the Lakos sense), and should be extracted into a utility class, or similar.</p>
<p>Does that resonate with the feelings of anyone else?</p>
<p>- Kim</p>
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		<title>By: Noel Llopis</title>
		<link>http://gamesfromwithin.com/stepping-through-the-looking-glass-test-driven-game-development-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Llopis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 03:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gamesfromwithin.dreamhosters.com/?p=327#comment-152</guid>
		<description>Still not convinced? Post here with questions about TDD or specific examples that you&#039;re having trouble applying TDD to and I&#039;ll try to lend a hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still not convinced? Post here with questions about TDD or specific examples that you&#8217;re having trouble applying TDD to and I&#8217;ll try to lend a hand.</p>
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